Some FaceSpace chatter:
Timothy Rutt shared a link.
This story is getting to be a dog’s breakfast: “While certain facts may remain in doubt, or disputed, what’s increasingly clear is that by climbing over one another to get the story, mainstream media journalists appear to be adding more confusion, than clarity, to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. ” Let’s hope we get to the facts of what happened, rather than whatever supports our prejudices.
Riehl World View: As Media Reports Conflict, Why Was Trayvon Martin Photo Altered?
Among a few interesting items uncovered in trying to examine the facts behind the shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin without drawing any conclusions, was that a widely viewed photograph of Martin appears to have been altered, somewhat. Here is…
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Hilary and Mark like this.
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Lisa: I’m disgusted by this article. He was UNARMED. There is no one disputing that fact. Does this article, in any way, contribute to “clarity” about what happened? The laws in Florida need to be changed. Period.Saturday at 8:21pm · Like
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Mark: Lisa, may I ask you what do you mean by “the laws in Florida need to be changed.” Are you familiar with Florida laws concerning the use of lethal force in self defense, or are you just saying that out of outrage based on incomplete knowledge of all the facts concerning this particular case? Just asking out of curiosity.Saturday at 9:02pm · Like
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Lisa: Mark, laws like “Stand Your Ground” give ordinary citizens the ability to use deadly force with no accountability. That is just plain wrong. A young man, unarmed, has paid the price for that law. Another young man will also pay the price for being legally allowed to use a deadly weapon when he has been in no way, shape, or form, trained to do so.Saturday at 9:11pm · Unlike ·
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Mark: Ordinary citizens already have that right. The law only defines this as to when one can and cannot. There is always accountability despite what you may think. What was his level of training?Saturday at 9:59pm · Like
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Mark:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String&URL=0700-0799%2F0776%2FSections%2F0776.013.html
Saturday at 10:20pm · Like -
Lisa: Ordinary citizens do not have that right. They do not have a “right” to shoot an unarmed person. Zimmerman was not trained as a law enforcement official. On what grounds was he standing, Mark? Gee whiz, if ordinary citizens have this right, why even bother paying for a police force?Saturday at 10:46pm · Like
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Timothy Rutt OK, here’s what’s on hand (1) Zimmerman had a right to be armed — it’s in the second amendment, which has been affirmed by the Supreme Court numerous times, and he was violating no Florida laws in so doing. (2) Zimmerman suffered wounds, so he himself was hurt in the encounter (maybe) (3) we have testimony from an unnamed witness that Treyvon was pounding on Zimmerman. If Zimmerman felt his life was in danger, he was fully within his rights to defend himself. You don’t have to wait for the cops if you feel your life is in imminent danger — but whether he was should be up to the authorities and/or a jury to decide. There’s also the story that Zimmerman basically was “hunting” Treyvon, whose presence in a gated community that he didn’t live in hasn’t been adequately explained — and Zimmerman was in Neighborhood Watch, so it’s kind of his volunteer job to question outsiders. (I also think he was really stupid in ignoring the police dispatcher who said “don’t chase this guy, let us handle it.” If he’d've done that, we wouldn’t be in this situation) All this tells me is that we don’t know what happened yet and we best keep our mouths shut until we actually find out, which is what I’m going to do.Saturday at 11:32pm · Like · 3 -
Lisa: If you read my comments, carefully, I did not challenge the second amendment. I am challenging the idea of shooting an unarmed person. I think it’s telling that he ignored the police dispatcher. As far as “outsiders”…really?? So, if I’m an “outsider” in your neighborhood, you have a right to question me or even shoot me? I live in the upper canyon here in Sierra Madre. I see people I don’t know all the time. Does that mean I should carry a gun and question them? What if they’re visiting friends or wanted to take a walk? Canadians can carry guns and they don’t have anywhere near the issues we do with violence.Sunday at 5:53pm · Unlike · 2
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Lisa:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/floridas-disastrous-self-defense-law.html
Laws like “stand your ground” give citizens unfettered power with no accountability.Sunday at 5:54pm · Unlike · 1 -
Lisa: John F. Timoney wrote the article pasted above. He” is a former Miami police chief, Philadelphia police commissioner and deputy police commissioner in New York. He is now senior police adviser to the Bahrain Minister of the Interior.”Sunday at 5:55pm · Unlike · 1
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica 1st year law school California… equal force required as underline determining factor in cases of self-defense. Excellent, Lisa.Sunday at 6:14pm · Like · 1 -
Timothy Rutt Lisa: no, you’re not challenging the Second Amendment, but you’re challenging Zimmerman’s right to exercise it. That’s like saying “I believe in freedom of speech, just don’t practice it.” Since I work with Neighborhood Watch quite frequently, one of the bywords is look for anyone who seems out of place. (here, we’ve had a rash of burglaries, and lots of them have been thwarted by residents who reported someone who seemed out of place). So I wouldn’t get on Zimmerman for merely questioning Treyvon. Again, we don’t know the certain facts of the case so any speculation is ill-advised right now.Sunday at 8:57pm · Like
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica Let’s go hypo then, shall we? I say I believe in gay marriage, I just don’t practice it. No harm, no foul. I say I believe in the Second Ammendment, and I practice it every chance I get. Heavy damages due to high risk behavior. How cavalier a comparison this. I believe in free speech so I will shut my mouth. No harm, no foul, yet, unless I do so with great care and percision, and with clarity, thoughtfulness and gentility.Sunday at 9:05pm · Like · 1
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Timothy Rutt Dianne, your argument makes no sense. Second Amendment gives you a right to bear arms, not a right to shoot somebody — two different things. You can believe in free speech and choose not to exercise it. You can believe in the right to peaceably assemble and still want to be left alone. In any event, this is about the journalism on the story, and it still bothers me. Defendants still have a presumption of innocence, and that’s kind of been thrown out the window before the facts are even out.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325
SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) – George Zimmerman cried for days in remorse after sh…See MoreSunday at 9:15pm · Like -
Timothy Rutt As for Timoney, his article makes a lot of sense — so Florida should adjust its law. We don’t know if this applies to the case in hand (BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW ALL THE FACTS!).Sunday at 9:21pm · Like
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica Miss Havisham was arguing with you, as she does. Defendants are often maligned in the press before they get to trial. I do agree, most unfortunate. Miss H remembers a time when an accused was not named until brought to trial. Now, attorneys for the defense must voir dire until they are blue in the face, and that seems to only happen when a defendant has money. What is Mr. Z’s socio-eco level? Does he have backers? Is this a smelly thing? As evinced by current morays in GOP politics, could this have anything to do with the Joe The Plummer School of Social Media content?Sunday at 9:25pm · Like
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C Afe Pasadena Pardon my interuption, but just gotta say I’m happy to hear Intergarlictica practices her 2nd Amen rights to the full extension of the law every chance she gets.Sunday at 9:27pm · Unlike · 2 -
Mark: Patrizzi, that paragraph makes absolutley no sense at all. The rational here is not rushing to judgment in this already over politicized case. Lisa, As for citing John Timoney, the relentless self promoter self absorbed failure a leader- please! As a former LE office myself, I know too well about him and his “views” from other officers that have served under his lead from several differant agencies.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2007-09-20/news/john-timoney-america-s-worst-cop/
Sunday at 9:28pm · Like -
Timothy Rutt Well! Remember what I said about this being a dog’s breakfast? It’s certainly turning out that way!Sunday at 9:29pm · Like · 2
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica Hamburger Hamlet.Sunday at 9:32pm · Like · 1
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C Afe Pasadena I’m leaving now. Into the rain to get some In-N-Out. Carry on as you were.Sunday at 9:34pm · Unlike · 1
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Mark: Well, let me add this to the fire, if I may:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/what_if_trayvon_had_been_white_and_the_shooter_black.html
Sunday at 9:38pm · Like -
Patrizzi Intergarlictica ”It was a knock-down, drag-out fight,” the Miami chief said, laughing. “Unfortunately I picked the biggest guy. I should have picked the smaller guy.” Ooooh, such a lush quote from the jealous, axe grinding newspaper underbelly of the old guard. Good job. Bravo.Sunday at 9:40pm · Like · 1
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica and the flames grow higher still.Sunday at 9:42pm · Like · 1
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica Mr. Rodriquez, the opening paragraph of the American Thinker essay put me off straight away. It completely ignores the fact of inequality in the justice system, the stats of black teens in prison compared to white, and many demonized black and other youth of color in unusual numbers being charged as adults receiving life sentences or death. Come now, do you not see what irks? – Miss HSunday at 9:48pm · Like · 1
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica This case is about protecting property. That is all. In the Kingdom of Thingdom, I suppose that merits death. It isn’t the law here. Things are not worth protecting to the death, ever.Sunday at 9:58pm · Like · 1
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica Speaking of dogs, just look at this Florida prison!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SAVING-THE-DOGS-CATS-OF-PUTNAM-COUNTY-FLORIDA/283143275070748
THE PUTNAM COUNTY AC IS VERY SMALL AND HAS VERY FEW EMPLOYEES, BUT IS RESCUE-FRI…See MorePage: 1,931 like thisSunday at 10:52pm · Like · 1 · -
Patrizzi Intergarlictica Closer to home, we have this:
http://www.kswt.com/story/17249393/robbery-suspect-shot-killed-by-pasadena-police
KSWT News 13, Desert News Now.News and information for the Desert Southwest, bri…See MoreYesterday at 12:05am · Like · -
Lisa : Please, refer to my very first comment. With emphasis. And, Tim, just because a person is allowed by law to carry a gun does not mean they have a right to shoot an UNARMED person. You said so yourself in your comment to Dianne. Apparently, Zimmerman’s lawyer must think so, too, as “self defense” is not the route being taken with the defendant.Yesterday at 12:13am · Unlike · 1
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Lisa: By the way, by the time this is over, there’s going to be one very full dog.Yesterday at 12:15am · Unlike · 3
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Timothy Rutt You DO have the right to shoot an unarmed person in self-defense — a woman is fully within her rights to pull out her Glock and ventilate the big guy who just broke into her bedroom with intent to rape and harm, even if he doesn’t get a chance to lay a hand on her. In fact, it’s better that way. I said you have the right to be armed, and but not the right to shoot — I can carry a gun, but I don’t have the right to pick someone off in the street. On the other hand, if he’s endangering my life, I have the right to defend myself. If the gun is nearby, I’ll use it. The fault is not with the shooter, but the one who is creating the danger. LIkewise, Ms. H, if someone is endangering your property, sometimes you don’t know that that’s where it’s going to end. If someone invades my home, I don’t know if he’s going to just loot it or loot and AND get rid of witnesses. The total risk should be to the invader, not the invaded. “Things are not worth protecting to the death, ever” is your feeling, and sincerely held — but your feelings ain’t the law.Yesterday at 9:15am · Like
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Timothy Rutt And let’s throw this in just for fun:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/294357/why-manipulate-tragedy-trayvon-martin-heather-mac-donald
Heather Mac Donald writes on NRO: The fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Mart…See MoreYesterday at 9:30am · Like -
Patrizzi Intergarlictica ”Things are not worth protecting to the death, ever” is your feeling, and sincerely held — but your feelings ain’t the law.” PATRONIZING, Mr. Rutt. What is wrong with you? Thresholds, intent, equal force are part and parcel. You have a blind eye, or something.Yesterday at 10:48am · Like
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Lisa: Here’s an idea: How about we all just agree to disagree, wait for the whole story to surface, and then have at it, again, on facebook. What we do know is that 2 lives have changed, permanently, and 2 families will never, ever, be the same. Very sad, indeed. Thank you, Tim, for allowing us to spar via your fb page. Let’s hug our loved ones just a little tighter this week.Yesterday at 11:30am · Unlike · 2
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Timothy Rutt The narrative seems to be falling apart. Please refer to my VERY FIRST POST!
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
articles.orlandosentinel.com
With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who …See MoreYesterday at 11:56am · Like -
Lisa: Stay tuned for more…Yesterday at 3:29pm · Like
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Timothy Rutt Can facts be patronizing, Dianne?Yesterday at 4:56pm · Like
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica …thinking…Yesterday at 7:45pm · Like
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Patrizzi Intergarlictica
http://www.sgvtribune.com/ci_20266109/cops-meet-clergy-mcdade-shooting?IADID=Search-www.sgvtribune.com-www.sgvtribune.com
PASADENA – Concerned about the police department27 minutes ago · Like · -
Patrizzi Intergarlictica What do you think is going on? This part of the story is being actively difficult to link. The video doesn’t even work.24 minutes ago · Like
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